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Post by gsdgroupie on Jun 4, 2020 21:48:58 GMT
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Post by cloud on Jun 5, 2020 9:10:51 GMT
That's a long way for a tiny scared puppy to travel, poor little mite, run free.
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Post by caryll on Jun 5, 2020 9:16:24 GMT
Poor little thing.
I wonder why they didn't go to a UK breeder?
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Post by gtrmacs on Jun 5, 2020 16:02:17 GMT
Price, prob'ly  (Jacqui - I've edited your original post a bit) |
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Post by gsdgroupie on Jun 5, 2020 17:35:04 GMT
Price, prob'ly (Jacqui - I've edited your original post a bit) Yes, I saw that!
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Post by caryll on Jun 5, 2020 17:58:49 GMT
Price, prob'ly No. Once you take into account the cost of transport, the cost is ludicrous. It isn't cheap to export a dog, even if the papers are false. More fool the person who thinks a 'good deal' is subjecting a tiny puppy to at least 24 hours shut in a small crate without human or canine company & air/sea travel! I have no sympathy for the buyer, but so much sympathy for the poor puppy.
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Post by gtrmacs on Jun 5, 2020 18:21:07 GMT
... (Jacqui - I've edited your original post a bit) Yes, I saw that! No complaints?? I try to post some info, too - rather than 'bare' URLs, ymmv  
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Post by gsdgroupie on Jun 5, 2020 21:37:32 GMT
Yes, I was going to do the same but it was all done in a rush - sorry (must try harder)!  |
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Post by Carlin on Jun 6, 2020 2:30:15 GMT
That's a long way for a tiny scared puppy to travel, poor little mite, run free. When I was a teenager in the USA I worked in a pet store that called itself "Doctor Pets" and had staff wear clothes that made it appear that we sold only healthy animals. In reality we sold puppies only bred in puppy mills and kittens taken from unwanted litters or that were not up to breed standards for purebreds. I was in charge of puppy and kitten care there, meaning I fed them, cleaned them and their cages and medicated them (vaccinations included) as a 16 year old. I saved a lot of kittens while working there since I would drive to the local animal kill shelters weekly to take in kittens that would otherwise have never found a home. I paid £350 for a terribly inbred golden retriever which later developed a protien allergy and died after only 6 years of life because when he came to the store he had a wound to his lip and could not eat. He needed to be fed with a syringe, which I did on my free time both before and after school until it healed. He was my first "soul dog".
Since then I have only had 1 dog bought from a breeder and it was a nightmare, not because of the breeder, but that the people who had sold her "stud" services had falcified information about the stud. The dog is a love, 10 years old now, but has needed eye surgery after going completely blind at 6 months of age due to genetic issues.
I have vowed to only take on rescues since then and I have met the best dog ever who is my second "soul dog" in my Buddy.
Having a dog is like having a child with progeria (disorder where children become geriatric while still very young) but I'm not sure so many people think of it that way. They see the cute and fun of a puppy who looks great in pictures and on your knee. My dog came from an online ad begging for someone to help the 6 month old puppy who did not function in a flat (I live in a flat and have done so with him the entire time, well over 5 years now). My heart broke over his picture and I needed to at least meet him. He chose me after we met. He had been abused and not socialised before I took him on, which I did not know but quickly learned. he is now a prince, imho, but still reactive towards certain dogs. He met a seagull chick that was so tiny that it still had its egg tooth yesterday and just sniffed it and was ready to adopt it before I moved it to a better location for its safety (with boh parents squawking over me). He gets it that I save all the babies.
I think the issue is that we look at it as some right to have a dog or cat instead of a privelege. In the past 20 years I have had 2 rescue cats (now both deceased due to age-related issues) and one purebred dog bought from a breeder (bad call) and a rescue dog bought at the same price the seller had paid. Animals are not a commodity. They are living beings. After I no longer have my Buddy, I am 200% certain that I will not bring home another animal if it is not a rescue situation. We need to break the wheel of animals as a commidity for trade. That is the only way we can stop situations with puppy mills and inbreeding.
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Post by caryll on Jun 6, 2020 6:17:39 GMT
I see what you mean, but I think that isn't what happened here.
These two were reality TV stars (apparently, I don't watch that sort of TV) & the bloke was 'showing off', trying to look good - "look at me, I can buy this really expensive pup from abroad".
Don't diss all breeders! They're not all bad, the same as not all pedigree dogs are unhealthy, not all crossbreeds are healthy. It's too easy to tar everyone with the same brush.
I don't know what happened to the pup, what illness it had etc, the article didn't say. My concern is subjecting a puppy to a long, lonely journey when it was unnecessary. There are Pom breeders in the UK.
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Post by goodie on Jun 6, 2020 6:47:48 GMT
Not all breeders abroad are being irresponsible - I agree with the long lonely journey. Some of you might remember an avatar I had of Axel and a golden retriever. That golden retriever came from a breeder in Poland, he is a healthy and happy 4 year old now. But he did not have a lonely journey either, as the female owner is originally from Poland, so yes, they got him from a breeder from abroad, but in a responsible manner so to speak.
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Post by Carlin on Jun 6, 2020 8:28:22 GMT
I see what you mean, but I think that isn't what happened here. These two were reality TV stars (apparently, I don't watch that sort of TV) & the bloke was 'showing off', trying to look good - "look at me, I can buy this really expensive pup from abroad". Don't diss all breeders! They're not all bad, the same as not all pedigree dogs are unhealthy, not all crossbreeds are healthy. It's too easy to tar everyone with the same brush. I don't know what happened to the pup, what illness it had etc, the article didn't say. My concern is subjecting a puppy to a long, lonely journey when it was unnecessary. There are Pom breeders in the UK. It's actually a problem in Sweden. We have a very high standard and lawful protections for dogs (which will be even stricter by law in the coming weeks) and breeders are generally very serious. This is why a purebred costs upwards of £1500-2000 here these days. The breeder I bought my Golden from was serious, but also young and duped. Samson cost me close to £1000 10 years ago.
There is, sadly, a huge market for puppy mills from the Balkans and Romania. Those puppies are often transported in vans for thousands of kilometers with their mouths taped shut to not alert authorities and either come here in oor shape or with parvo or distemper. It has become quite a problem specifically with small breeds.
There are no guarantees for health in mixed breeds. Buddy is a shepherd/border collie cross and he has allergies which have meant chronic ear infections and itchy feet. It is only since this past summer I have had answers and been able to keep him medicated to give him comfort and maintain good health.
I stand by what I said about only taking on rescues if I want a dog who is not going to be a genuinely working dog. Even the best breeders help to create unhealthy and unwanted dogs because they make dogs an item of value in a society that still treats them as an accessory that everyone has a right to possess. It is not so much about breeds and such. It is about respect for the lives of animals which we humans have chosen to have in our homes and lives. No one has given them a choice.
I rescued Buddy because he chose me. Had he not been so clear in his need to live with me I may have let him go but he was very clear that I was his human, much like my cat Sera was clear that she chose me to be with. She, literally, went everywhere with me that she could and happily walked into a carrier when I showed it to her because she knew it meant she would be with me and I was her human.
I am Buddy's human these days. We both understand this and have a genuine relationship and communication in that way. He knows I'm the leader and dominant but I'm the leader he has chosen and he was given a choice.
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Post by goodie on Jun 6, 2020 8:56:44 GMT
I agree with having a rescue - I would have done but hubby was adamant that he did not want a rescue (reason being that they are "problem dogs", he wanted a dog that could be trained from pup onwards). Rather than not having a dog I bowed to his opinion. There are so many dogs that need to be rescued.
But I do not think that breeders help to create unhealthy or unwanted dogs - the breeders we got our dogs from were very responsible, asked a lot of questions what would happen once the pups reached their new homes etc... A good breeder cares about where their pups are going. Not saying that all breeders are good breeders, but imo good breeders (hopefully) outnumber bad breeders. Of course, nobody should choose a pup from a puppy mill.
To think that a dog is an "accessory" is sadly part of the "glam" society we live in at the moment, but all "dog owners" I communicate with do not think like that, and I am fairly certain none of you do either. After all, once you decide to have an animal companion, you are responsible for their well being and their happiness. Maybe because choosing a dog from a breeder rather than having a rescue we created a problem? Should breeders be outlawed? I personally don't think so.
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Post by caryll on Jun 6, 2020 9:56:43 GMT
Maybe because choosing a dog from a breeder rather than having a rescue we created a problem? Should breeders be outlawed? I personally don't think so. No, of course breeders should not be outlawed, that would be ludicrous. What happens then, when all the rescues have homes? And no, a responsible person buying from a responsible breeder does not create the problem. Irresponsible buyers/breeders do. There should be tougher laws on breeding, and puppy farms should be completely outlawed. As for buying from abroad, there should be a cast iron reason for choosing a foreign breeder as opposed to one in your home country. If the reason is not sufficient, then travel papers should not be issued.
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Post by caryll on Jun 6, 2020 10:06:12 GMT
It's actually a problem in Sweden. We have a very high standard and lawful protections for dogs (which will be even stricter by law in the coming weeks) and breeders are generally very serious. This is why a purebred costs upwards of £1500-2000 here these days. The breeder I bought my Golden from was serious, but also young and duped. Samson cost me close to £1000 10 years ago. My pup, when we get him, will cost approximately £2500. Yes, it's a lot of money. But I know he will be free of inherited problems & will spend his first 8 weeks with his siblings, in a family home, looked after by a vet (the breeder) and socialised with other bull terriers & other breeds, plus will be introduced to children. Am I happy to pay for that? Yes. Would I go abroad when there are excellent breeders in the UK? No.
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