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Post by goodie on Feb 23, 2019 17:33:33 GMT
Not usually a "Times" reader, but I bought it by chance today (of course for Axel's crossword), and found the enclosed article, I would be interested in all of your thoughts!  |
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Post by caryll on Feb 23, 2019 23:02:49 GMT
Oh dear. She has missed the point completely.
Most people aren't against cross breeds, but are against the deliberate crossing of two 'pure bred' dogs (with all their inherited health problems almost certainly being ignored) in order to create a weird-sounding, money making mix. Let's face it, these cross breeds (which is what they are), in some instances, sell for more than the parents' breeds would.
MOST 'designer' dogs (I actually hate that term) have been bred because it's fashionable to have a schnoodle/pomsky/shitoodle etc. I've yet to meet anyone with a designer dog who enquired into the inherited problems in the parent breeds or gave a shitzky what the possible health problems of their pup may be.
And don't mention 'hybrid vigour' as it is now thought not to be true.
Sorry. It's a pet gate of mine!
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Post by Carlin on Feb 24, 2019 7:35:51 GMT
The "-oodle" mixes started in the USA as a way of getting the allergy friendly/nonshedding traits of the poodle mixed with traits from other breeds that were desireable, such as retrievers as assistance and guide dogs. They then became popular for being very cute. When dogs started to become fashion accessories, and as the internet introduced us to accidental but adorable crosses, people started making crosses like the "borgie" and "puggle" (though I'm actually positive towards the puggle as I think it makes a healthier dog than pugs). My dog is a popular mix of border collie and shepherd though I was not aiming for a particular breed when I rescued him. My criteria was pretty much "medium to large dog" and then the rest fell into place. I've had 3 purebreeds in my life as an adult (and late teen so aware enough to understand health/breeding issues). The first had a major protien allergy that ended his life prematurely at age 6. The second was a red shepherd who was bred by a genetics researcher at Rutgers University in New Jersey as a hobby. He bred red and blue coats with an aim to have the straight backs and healthy hips. He was a lovely dog and delevoped very difficult to control epilepsi. He lived to be 5 years. My third purebred I bought in 2010 and he is still alive and healthy. He is a golden retriever. He developed juvenile cataracts at the onset of puberty at 6 months. We had the incredible fortune to have a world reknowned researcher in genetic eye disease in dogs and cats working at a local clinic when this happened so Samson had 2 successful cataract surgeries and has about 70-80% clear vision. He doesn't need to read nor drive a car so it was a very successful treatment for him. Buddy has had no health issues minus a slightly crooked canine that we managed to correct by massaging his tooth and giving him specific chew toys to help push it out. I have become opposed to a lot of the breed standards since it hinges so much on appearance as opposed to function. When I look at breeds, I look at what purpose they have traditionally served and I think about what I want from my dog. When I went to see Buddy I was apprehensive over his mix of 2 high-energy working breeds but it came down to feeling out his personality. He is a very mellow soul and has a great off button. He does not "work". He is a family dog and purely companionship. I make sure he gets 10km of walks daily and we do mental activation daily but a lot of it isn't obvious training with clickers and such, rather commands to get certain things, hiding treats in the flat, tracking wildlife, etc. If I wanted a breed that doesn't shed, I might look a a "-oodle" mix as I prefer a lot of the breed traits from retrievers. I can hoover my flat, though, so I went with the dog who fit me as an individual, mixed breed and all  |
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Post by goodie on Feb 24, 2019 8:23:00 GMT
Oh dear. She has missed the point completely. Most people aren't against cross breeds, but are against the deliberate crossing of two 'pure bred' dogs (with all their inherited health problems almost certainly being ignored) in order to create a weird-sounding, money making mix. Let's face it, these cross breeds (which is what they are), in some instances, sell for more than the parents' breeds would. MOST 'designer' dogs (I actually hate that term) have been bred because it's fashionable to have a schnoodle/pomsky/shitoodle etc. I've yet to meet anyone with a designer dog who enquired into the inherited problems in the parent breeds or gave a shitzky what the possible health problems of their pup may be. And don't mention 'hybrid vigour' as it is now thought not to be true. Sorry. It's a pet gate of mine! I like the name "shitoodle", hits it on the head! |
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Post by caryll on Feb 24, 2019 14:06:06 GMT
I'm actually for breed standards. Without them, there would be no distinct breeds (ie no Border Collies, no GSDs etc etc) as dogs would be bred by a) working people purely for functionality, dismissing health problems because they would cull rather than spend money on researching DNA and hereditary problems and b) puppy farmers who will breed anything to anything to get a 'cute' pup for loads of dosh.
If there are breed standards then there must be a governing body. The KC (I can only speak for the UK one) has made mistakes, and they've allowed breeders to get away with murder, but they ARE doing something about it now. Some may say too little, too late, but I say at least they're doing something now!
However, people also expect miracles - the KC is only a governing body, not a legal one so they are having to juggle breed health with reluctant breed societies, without driving them all away to another registration body who won't give a damn. There's already a 'doodle' registration body, and to the best of my knowledge, they don't encourage health testing.
I've had 7 pedigree dogs, one working sheepdog & a GSD x Rough Collie. All have had reasonable health (although Dempsey now has Lymphoma - but that's quite a common cancer in dogs). All the pedigrees, though, have been from health tested parents.
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Post by cockneychris on Feb 24, 2019 20:32:09 GMT
Good post Caryll
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Post by gtrmacs on Feb 25, 2019 1:18:10 GMT
... against the deliberate crossing of two 'pure bred' dogs (with all their inherited health problems almost certainly being ignored) in order to create a weird-sounding, money making mix. Let's face it, these cross breeds (which is what they are), in some instances, sell for more than the parents' breeds would. MOST 'designer' dogs (I actually hate that term) have been bred because it's fashionable to have a schnoodle/pomsky/shitoodle etc. I've yet to meet anyone with a designer dog who enquired into the inherited problems in the parent breeds or gave a shitzky what the possible health problems of their pup may be ... And they're very often bred by Back Yard Breeders with no regard for anything except money. Or the product of 'I'd love her to have just one litter, she's so pretty and my mate's got a nice dog, too ...'  (If you think this is a good plan, try visiting a few dog rescues ...) Ideal for unregistered puppy farmers with no inspections and often for stupidly elevated prices Also often bought on a whim with little forethought The "-oodle" mixes started in the USA ... Australia?? My dog is a popular mix of border collie and shepherd though I was not aiming for a particular breed when I rescued him. My criteria was pretty much "medium to large dog" and then the rest fell into place ... I've always had crosses in 45+ years of dogs, rescues chosen by your method - then I got our first (rescue) shep by the same procedure. After that I was hooked, so the following 3 were sheps,too - Tasha is the most recent I have become opposed to a lot of the breed standards since it hinges so much on appearance as opposed to function ... Impossible to argue against Have a look at champion golden retrievers, EBTs, and sheps from the '30s to see how things have changed. Retrievers were solid, mahogany coloured dogs,nowadays they're mostly very lightly built and almost white  Wally Conron (who started the labradoodle idea) now wonders what he's done |
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Post by Carlin on Feb 26, 2019 17:54:44 GMT
Poodle mixes were popular in the USA before the Labradoodle was coined in Australia. Schnoodle, Shih-poo, Cockapoo, etc. as well as other poodle crosses. They were a favorite of the puppy mills, and still are I fear. I can say that I don't think I'll get a shepherd (mix) again the day I no longer have my Buddy. He is too special to me and too close. After I no longer have Buddy in my life I will likely wait to get another dog and then it will be a rescue I think.. unless I get a bloodhound as I find the work that breed does in searching for missing people something I would be interested in and would want to train a dog to do. If I had the time for it I would train Buddy for search and rescue as he has an incredible nose and keen interest in tracking. We limit it to tracking down moose legs in the woods that I have a friend lay out  |
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Post by goodie on Feb 26, 2019 18:20:44 GMT
We limit it to tracking down moose legs in the woods that I have a friend lay out Wow, moose legs, where do you get them from? |
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Post by Carlin on Feb 26, 2019 19:07:55 GMT
They sell them in the same store where I get Buddy's food. They sell a great deal of roadkill here.
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Post by goodie on Feb 26, 2019 19:31:25 GMT
They sell them in the same store where I get Buddy's food. They sell a great deal of roadkill here. As far as I know it is not allowed to sell roadkill in England, but I guess it must be okay in your country. Just wondering where the store gets the roadkill from, do people bring it in and sell it to them? And would that not encourage people to run over animals deliberately? |
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Post by gsdgroupie on Feb 26, 2019 20:51:42 GMT
They sell them in the same store where I get Buddy's food. They sell a great deal of roadkill here. As far as I know it is not allowed to sell roadkill in England, but I guess it must be okay in your country. Just wondering where the store gets the roadkill from, do people bring it in and sell it to them? And would that not encourage people to run over animals deliberately? Good point! |
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Post by gtrmacs on Feb 26, 2019 21:01:29 GMT
As far as I know it is not allowed to sell roadkill in England, but I guess it must be okay in your country ... Allegedly, there's a US restaurant which will cook your roadkill for you It's called 'From your grille to ours ...'. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadkill_cuisine |
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Post by goodie on Feb 26, 2019 21:07:44 GMT
Interesting, I did not know that... amazing what some people get up to |
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Post by Carlin on Feb 27, 2019 17:58:11 GMT
I can say this: no one wants to hit a moose with a car on purpose or by accident. People die in those kinds of collisions and cars are destroyed. Deer collisions aren't much kinder to the cars.
There are charity programs in the USA that distribute meat from roadkills to needy families. It's quite a good use of meat that would otherwise be lost. In NJ and Pennsylvania it is perfectly legal to take a roadkill for human consumption.
I live in Sweden (from USA originally) and there are very specific laws with regards to wildlife and traffic accidents. If an animal is killed in a traffic accident then the person or persons with hunting rights in the area have control and responsibility for the cadaver. If an animal is injured then the hunter on duty for the area must go out and track it down and determine if needs to be put down. If it does then the hunter must do this. This is regardless of what kind of animal: moose, deer, wolf, badger, etc.
If the meat is not tainted (ie: ruptured intestines) then it can be sent to a butcher and sold for both human and animal consumption by the hunters. There are also hunters who cull certain populations of different wildlife and the meat is then sold for the same purposes.
Sometimes hunters have to put down wildlife like moose and deer that have wandered into city centers where they cannot be rescued because the stress of it will kill them or they have become too habituated to humans (a moose and her 2 calves were put down this summer because the cow attacked numerous people out walking their dogs and she was deemed a threat and her calves could not survive without her).
There is also some domestic farming with moose and deer so meat comes from there but good part is from hunters who have had to handle roadkill/traffic accidents.
This year there is a lot of horsemeat available because of the severe drought Sweden had. A very large number of horses had to be put down because the owners could no longer afford to feed them due to skyhigh hay prices since there was a nearly non-existant harvest for hay this year.
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